Hey, everybody. Before we get into Episode Two of the WordPress Year in Review Podcast here over on the how I Built It feed or on its own feet actually if you want to go to [wpreview.io], I do want to just fill you in a little bit more about the project since this is the second real episode.
WordPress Year in Review if you have not seen it, it is a project I’m putting together to help fill the void for WordCamps, either not happening at all or only happening virtually. So my plan on top of this podcast is to release an e-book of all of the changes that happened in the WordPress ecosystem. That’s the software and the community, and we’ll touch on WooCommerce as well. And I want to do a video series as well. So, this kind of three points content approach is going to slowly roll out since starting in October, going through the end of the year, maybe a little bit into the new year. And the pledge, so it was a crowdfunding project that did hit its goal. But the crowdfunding part is still open because there are two parts of it that I want to keep open until the end of November.
One is access to a print copy of the book. So if you pledge for $19, you will get a print copy of the book. And the other is the small business sponsor level. So for $100, your logo and link will get added to the website and it will be printed on a special thank you page in the book. So you can go to [wpyearinreview.com] to learn more about this project if you want.
But for now, let’s talk to Hugh Lashbrooke of Automatic. He’s going to tell us all about the Learn WordPress platform that the community is putting together.
Joe Casabona: Hey, everybody. And welcome to a very special episode of How I Built It. It is part of the WordPress Year in Review series. And if you’re unfamiliar with this series, it is a project that I am putting together that is supported by the community. Thank you to everybody who has pledged in that crowdfunding campaign where I am talking to potential WordCamp US speakers, as well as people in and around the WordPress community that are working towards filling the void that is being left due to the global pandemic and canceling either fully canceling WordCamps or canceling in-person WordCamps. And I’m really excited to talk today to Hugh Lashbrooke. He’s a community team lead at Automattic. And he is here to talk about the Learn WordPress platform. Hugh, how are you today?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Hi. I’m doing great. Thanks, Joe. How are you?
Joe Casabona: I’m doing very well. Thank you. Thanks for coming to the show. I’m trying to be cognizant about the way I pronounce your name. I, as a New Yorker, dropped the first, the H sound. But, saying to you, “How are you today?” makes it kind of sound rude. So I’m trying to be really good about it.
Hugh Lashbrooke: It’s very common. So, no worries.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Awesome. So the way that this interview was set up as I reached out to Angela Jin about…I know that she’s on the WordCamp US organizing team, and I wanted to give a little bit of insight into kind of what went on with the decision making there and looking towards the future. And she is doing an interview with Post Status and David Bisset. So I’ll link to that in the show notes so that you can get that content. And she referred me to you to talk about Learn WordPress. And I’m really excited about this because it looks like a really cool initiative. So, before we get into the nitty-gritty details, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, and a little bit about like maybe the one-line description of Learn WordPress.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Cool. Well, I mean, you already said I’m a community team lead at Automatic. I work… my time, basically on Automatic it’s, I’m essentially full-time sponsored by Automatic to work on the WordPress community team. So I work for the WordPress community with Automatic sponsoring my time. And it’s a great place to be. I love my work. I get to work with the WordPress community members all over the world every day, which is fantastic. Really.
One of our main focuses as a team has obviously been the in-person events program, meetups, WordCamps, and that kind of thing. But obviously, this year that’s taken a bit of a second, a bit of a knock, to say the least, we’ve had to change how we do a lot of things, how we focus on things, how events work, what events look like in the WordPress space? I mean, that’s true of anyone running any community in the world this year. But obviously, we’ve dotted it cause we’ve got a large community in WordPress. So that’s been a big thing.
I’m in Cape Town in South Africa. And although I’m currently relocating to New Zealand, I’ll be in a very different time zone soon. So kind of working with people all over the world. And when a lot of the stuff happens in the US which is sort of very much outside of my regular time, and that kind of thing, it’s, it can be challenging. But it’s an exciting place to be working. I got a great job working with a great team. I work with people all over the world, so we get to support people.
And in terms of Learn WordPress, what we’re doing there is it’s not meant to be something that sort of replaces in-person events, but the idea is that we’re building a…we’re creating a platform where people can come to learn how to do things with WordPress, whether that’s built publish, or contribute, basically. That’s really where we’re at.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. And that sounds fantastic. So let me just say that you currently live in Cape Town and you’re moving to New Zealand, which are two places I would absolutely love to visit. So, you know, I think it’s cool that you’re living in places that I would love to one day. See, I’m here on the east coast of the United States. I can’t imagine living anywhere else. But, I think I’ve always like…Do you actually, this is a digression. Do you watch…Have you ever watched Scrubs?
Hugh Lashbrooke: I watched a little bit. I mean, many years ago, watch a bit of it. I never watched the whole thing, but I watched. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: There is a two-episode arc basically where they go to Cape Town for like a destination wedding. And like, since those two episodes, it’s really all I know about Cape Town. And I just have like a very romanticized version of it in my head from Scrubs. But it seems like a really cool place.
Hugh Lashbrooke: It is. So it’s a beautiful city. We’ve got many places to see. And at the moment, traveling there is I’m covering anywhere. They’re tricky right now. But if you do get a chance to come up here, I would really recommend it. it’s a lovely place to be.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. And I mean, yeah, especially again, being in the United States, I don’t know how, where I’d be able to travel really. But in any case, that’s not, that’s neither here nor there. That was just a digression for a pop culture reference that I was able to make.
But the learn WordPress, you said it’s not supposed to replace conferences and events, but create a platform for learning. Now a few years ago before I had kids and was self-employed and all that, I did spend some time on the training team where our main job was to essentially create these lesson plans that meetup organizers can use. Is there any relationship between the content that was created with the training team and what’s being used to Learn WordPress or is this more like people can apply to teach WordPress-based things?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. So we’ve actually been working quite closely with the training team on Learn WordPress, which has been really great experience. And the lesson plans are talking about actually a part Learn WordPress as well. So the kind of Learn WordPress essentially has three sorts of main areas, I guess, of connection. And one is the lesson plans, which are essentially plans of lessons that people can download. And then they can use those plans and outlines to teach those lessons themselves. I think it’s great that you’re involved in that.
Those are fantastic initiatives, and those lesson plans are being audited by the training team at the moment to make sure they’re up to date. And that is a big part of the Learn WordPress platform.
The other parts of it are live prerecorded, rather workshops and video workshops that people can come and watch and learn.
And then the third sort of element to the platform is live discussion groups, which are sort of discussion groups that are organized around the content in the workshops. So you watch the workshop, and you can join a discussion group to learn a bit more, to discuss with a group, and then a group of people who have also watched the workshop. So those are the three elements to it. And yeah. Lesson plans are a big part of that and an important part of that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That’s great. So I think that an important distinction to make here, right, is that there are, so first of all, there are still virtual WordCamps happening. But these are, this is not just your pitching like a WordCamp talk, right? This is like you’re picking a specific topic to teach people.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yes. Yeah. So, the workshops on Learn WordPress, we just call it ‘Learn’ for short. So if I say, learn, that’s what I’m referring to. The workshops at Learn are meant to be targeted at specific skills that people are wanting to learn. So some of the workshops, you really got a, I mean, there are workshops on how to build your first Gutenberg block. It’s very practical. And we’ve got workshops on how to contribute to the WordPress project. And we’re working on a series of those that people are contributing and how to contribute to the different teams. And we’ve got how to publish with the Block Editor. So that’s more of a publisher user-focused workshop. But all of them are practical skills-based content.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. And it sounds like this is not just targeting beginners or advanced users. It sounds like you’re targeting the entire gamut of entire WordPress community members.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. So it’s meant to be, it’s kind of, it’s a place you can come to learn how to do things with WordPress, whether you’re new and you want to learn how to publish or whether you are developing on Learn, how to learn…you know, learn how to do more advanced development, or you’re a beginning developer, or you want to learn how to contribute to WordPress and sort of how to do something with WordPress regardless of what that thing is. That’s what the platform is trying to cater towards.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. That’s great. And about how long are these workshops?
Hugh Lashbrooke: They vary in length. I think our longest one on there at the moment is like 45 minutes, a little bit longer. Actually, I think a bit longer at 50 something minutes. But then there’s some, I think the one that’s just short, I think the shortest one I’ve got is 11 minutes, you know, so it’s sort of, it depends on the topic and the content.
What we’re sort of moving towards actually is shorter workshops that can be watched sort of back-to-back to get a broader skillset that is easier for people to digest. And also if the workshop involves something in the WordPress dashboard, for example, in a year’s time, the dashboard could look a little bit different, and then the video is not out of date. It’s easier to replace shorter videos. So we are sort of focusing more on shorter bite-size bits that you can learn. And then if you string them together, there’ll be one sort of bigger skillsets you can pick up.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense, you know, as someone in the e-learning and online course space, that’s something that we’ve been talking about for years now, right? Is you want, you know, ideally five to seven-minute videos that are easily digestible. Most people are watching on their community and things like that. So, yeah. I think that’s a really great idea. So you’re moving towards shorter workshops.
So let’s talk logistics a little bit because I’m curious as to kind of the platform you’re using to put this together. I assume it’s based on WordPress in some way. But also how you’re getting, what do you call the workshop instructors? Do you call them instructors or speakers or leaders?
Hugh Lashbrooke: We’re using the term presenters at the moment.
Joe Casabona: Presenters. Okay, great. Yeah. So I’m curious. So, not to throw all the questions at you at once. Let’s start first with, how do you get presenters? And then we’ll talk about kind of the tech and the process for getting everything online?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. So the idea with this is that it’s a community-based project, a community-driven project and presenters can be anyone in the WordPress community. So there’s an application form on the site. It’s a little bit more involved than an application for a WordCamp talk I guess. But it’s effectively the same kind of thing somebody is interested in contributing content can fill in the form, give some details about what they’re wanting to present, and then that will be reviewed. And then they’ll get an email saying, yeah, could go ahead and record that or maybe change this about it before coordinate or that kind of thing. Yeah. So people play on the side of that. Anyone in the WordPress community can do that.
And one thing we’re actually particularly keen on getting is more non-English content on the site as well. So it can be a really global platform which anyone can apply for it.
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So I liked that you said that the application form is a little bit more involved than say a WordCamp application form. And for those unfamiliar, a WordCamp application form is, some questions about you and if you’ve ever spoken, and then it’s basically the title of your talk and a short description. I suspect you want these workshops to be a little bit more fleshed out before you accept them, is that right?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. So if you look at any of the workshops on the site, what you would see on there are, there’s a set of a video, obviously, physical description, and then there’s a set of learning outcomes which is sort of a bullet point list of 2, 3, 4 things that people watching the workshop would expect to be able to learn from it. And then after that, there’s also a set of what we were calling comprehension questions, but, we might change the name of that understanding questions or something, or the word comprehension isn’t that as clearly understood as we think of this.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. I didn’t realize that.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. That’s what I’ve been taught. So we might change the word. But the point is that it questions that people can, once they’ve watched the workshop, they can ask themselves these questions that kind of prove to themselves that they’ve understood the content. And we ask people for those learning outcomes and those questions upfront when they apply. And so we kind of know what direction the workshops go.
Joe Casabona: That makes sense. And again, this is not a knock on WordCamp speakers, cause I’ve gone and done the same thing. But, you know, you can apply to a WordCamp without having any pieces of your talk put together except the title and description. And then, you know, you’re working on your slides right before you go on stage. And again, that’s maybe that’s like a, maybe I’m saying the quiet part out loud there but I know that I’ve made tweaks to my talk before going on stage based on what I’ve seen at that WordCamp. And you don’t really want that if you’re trying to make something like this, where you want users to learn and have a takeaway like takeaways and make sure they understand concepts, right. Because they’re not there in the audience to ask the presenter right?
Hugh Lashbrooke: No. exactly.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. So, that’s really great. And so, and you said that this is open to everybody and that you’re trying to get more non-English speakers on the platform. So those of you who are multilingual who are listening to this, be sure to apply. I will drop a link in the show notes which you can find over at [howibuilt.it], or if you want to get just this series over at [wpreview.io].
So with that, let’s talk about the tech. How is this platform built? Is there an LMS in the background? Is it just posts? How are you hosting the videos? All that fun stuff?
Hugh Lashbrooke: So as you said, unsurprisingly it’s built on WordPress. It wouldn’t be a WordPress community project if it wasn’t. And it’s hosted on [wordpress.org]. So it’s at [learn.wordpress.org]. So that’s part of the massive WordPress multi-site infrastructure. It’s a separate site.
In terms of the basic setup, essentially for the lesson plans, use a custom post type. And the workshops use a custom post type and both of them have some meta fields and custom taxonomies too, just, you know, categorize and filter and that kind of thing.
And then there’s been some development work done on it, which is all public on the WordPress GitHub repo, which we can also link in the show notes, which anyone can contribute to as with anything else on. And there’s some custom work done on there just for the application forms for the workshop layouts is There’s some nice sort of when you recruit when you add a new workshop, there’s a sort of, there’s a good and big page template, which is quite a cool post template. I’m not done with the kind of official term for it, but, it’s all sort of laid out as soon as you click add new it’s all there. And yeah. That’s the sort of basic infrastructure.
The next sort of step in terms of content on there, you mentioned LMS and we have, we actually have Sensei LMS installed on there because that’s already been used elsewhere on [wordpress.org]. So it was easy to get across here. And what we’re going to be doing going forward, It’s still sort of in-process, and we’re working with the training team very closely on all of them. We’re getting sort of more costs or learning outcomes-based course structure. So rather than just sort of individual workshops that might be sort of linked to others and a bit of a series, we’re having a sort of, we’re going to have courses that are more based around specific learning outcomes, like how to build a plugin. And that course can follow a bunch of workshops until they get to the end. And then there’ll be quizzes after lessons and that kind of thing. And for that, we’re going to be using the Sensei LMS as the structure. But the rest of it is essentially custom-built post types and that kind of thing.
Joe Casabona: That’s really interesting because I know that, when I was evaluating my own LMS site, I was looking at Sensei. Now, this is like four or five years ago, and I know that Sensei has undergone like a huge redesign. And so is there a dependency on WooCommerce still for Sensei?
Hugh Lashbrooke: No, no. Sensei was never, interestingly in context. I, many, many years ago I was the lead developer for Sensei when I worked at Woo. Cause as a moved before, we required Automatic and I was the lead dev for Sensei. So I know the platform quite well, although it has been, and that was years ago. And like you said, it’s been hugely improved since then. But it was never really fully dependent on WooCommerce. It was just really tightly integrated. But in this case, there’s no dependence and we’re not using WooCommerce for this.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. Wow! Yeah. Man, I totally thought that it was dependent on WooCommerce. But that’s awesome to hear. So I’ll link Sensei in the show notes as well.
So, I like that you kind of slid this evolution into your description that you’re looking at a more course-based approach maybe in the future. With those courses, are you looking, is it going to be more like we have these lessons that we want to teach, and then you’re going to let the community know? Or is it based on what’s kind of been submitted? You’re going to put a course together or are you going to look for like one instructor to do the entire course? or I’m sorry, one presenter to do the entire course?
Hugh Lashbrooke: it’s, I’m honestly, honestly, it’s probably a combination of these things. We have a bunch of content on there already that people have contributed, which is great. And we have some that sort of ready to go so we can release new content each week. And then we’ve got some people who are busy recording things, which is just cool. And we’re going to use some of that. But another thing that we’re busy working on is a course outline. But of course, outlines essentially. So this is what the course is going to be like. And these are the lessons we want within that. And these are the workshops. And if we have some of them we’ll use them and then we’ll reach out to people for other specifics. so in terms of getting presenters, there is a public application form. But also doing some active outreach to people we know who have skills in various areas that would be able to do so. So we’re kind of using a combination of all those methods, I guess.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, that’s awesome. And that brings me to my next set of questions, which is, well, first of all, are you, how are you hosting the videos? Are you using like Vimeo or something else?
Hugh Lashbrooke: The videos are hosted on [wordPress.tv]. So we’re using that infrastructure, which is through video press and all of that, you know, so we’re using that so that all the videos on Learn, actually also on [wordpress.tv], then we just embed them on Learn. But there’s whole bunch of extra content on down, like the outcomes and the questions. And then once we have the cost structure, it will be linked inside that.
Joe Casabona: That’s fantastic. I completely forgot that there was a VideoPress.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. We kind of had a discussion between using the WordPress YouTube channel or [wordpress.tv]. And we thought keeping it in house would make a lot of sense. And then we’d have one advantage of [wordpress.tv] as well or one of the advantages is that it’s got a sub. You can do built-in subtitling. So as long as you have, it’s got a built-in system for adding subtitles differently. So that’s a great advantage. So people just like, they can contribute it to anybody on [wordpress.tv]. They can do the same on Learn. They can contribute subtitles in their local language and that kind of thing. So that was a sort of built-in advantage that we really like.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That’s great. And then you don’t run into the issue of having like, you know, other YouTube videos kind of being. I think you can turn that off, but like, you never know. It’s, I love YouTube for my, you know, the videos that I put on YouTube. But for my courses, you know, I wanted something, you know, more heavy-duty. And so I went with Vimeo pro because you can lock down domains based on Vimeo and stuff like that. But YouTube is very good for specific things. But, you know, I think in this case it was, it’s a good call to keep it in house. And so you have the videos on [wordpress.tv]. Now getting those videos, right, are you working with the presenters at all to give them tips on presenting or recording themselves or, what is, you know, what does that process look like once a presenter has been accepted?
Hugh Lashbrooke: So once the presenter has been accepted, we’ve got some sort of basic tips that we give them. But one thing we’re actually working on at the moment is quite Meta, I guess. But a sort of a series of workshops on how to do workshops. So we want to, you want to go in there sort of a short series of workshops and sort of have to present a workshop well on learn. So there’ll be content available and learning how to contribute to Learn. So it’s quite a sort of Meta thing. But I think it’d be really valuable and that’s something we’d like to have. At the moment It’s sort of a, we give them some guidelines in texts and you know, and I’m always happy to answer any questions as much as they need before they finished recording.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Well, I‘ll say this, I guess publicly when this episode comes out. But if you would like some contribution in that area, that’s something that I’ve been thinking a lot about, especially cause like you see these videos where there’s like no lighting and people, it looks like they’re recording in a dungeon. And there are a few just simple tricks to fix that.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah. I’ll talk to you after this about that.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Sounds great. Awesome. So we’re about coming up on time here. So usually at this point, I like to ask, if you have any tips for listeners and in this case, If maybe they’ve heard this and they’re like, oh, I, you know, I wonder if there’s a workshop I can present, what are your tips for presenting a workshop? What topics at the time of this recording in mid-October are you looking for?
Hugh Lashbrooke: So we’re very much, I mean like we said earlier, we’re looking for kind of content on anything at this stage. So anything that is about doing something with WordPress. But if you’re thinking about it, if you think, I would actually really, I would like to contribute to that, that sounds really, really cool. But you’re not sure what to think about what you do with WordPress and teach people how to do that, basically, because this platform is going to be like you said earlier, it’s going to be from people who are brand new to WordPress or there will be people who have been using WordPress for many years and want to learn some more, or how to contribute or whatever. So it could be absolutely anything. And if you do something on WordPress that you think you’re quite good at, then teach people how to do that. We could…there’ll be space for that because it’s a skill that is needed.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Love that. Now I will ask a clarifying question here. Right? Is this, are you focusing more on core WordPress, or if there’s like I build great landing pages with named page builder here, is that good or is that something like you’d rather see done with Gutenberg? And I know that this is not like supposed to be a gotcha question. This is really just like…I’m curious.
Hugh Lashbrooke: No. For sure. So obviously we would want to highlight a lot of things to do with Gutenberg and the Block Editor and all that kind of stuff. And full site editing and all of that stuff that’s part of the core. But one thing we’ve also avoiding as far as possible is highlighting specific plugins because then, it’s because it’s hosted on [wordpress.org[ that becomes a bit of a…It can be a bit of a problem when you start promoting one plugin over another, for any reason, especially because plugins and themes often have commercial interests involved. And we’re trying to avoid that. So focusing on WordPress core itself, we, there’s a good chance we’ll have some sort of workshop on I don’t know, or popular one would be how to do e-commerce on WordPress, because that’s a very popular question, obviously. But if we did something like that, we wouldn’t do like how to use WooCommerce or how to use Easy Digital Downloads. We would focus more on how to do e-commerce, some general principles, and then sort of briefly highlight some of the big plugins in that market, you know, without sort of faith in any particular one.
We haven’t got to do that yet. But that’s the type of thing I can imagine we would do there rather than a this is how you use Easy Digital Downloads because that’s not really, what we’re aiming to do. That’s the company behind those products can do that themselves. Basically.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Again, that makes sense. Right? You’re providing, you know, this is not necessarily like how to build a specific niche site with WordPress. This is how to do certain things with WordPress. So I think that makes sense, right? How did the eCommerce, and even like how to build a killer landing page with WordPress, and then you can say like, you can do this with Gutenberg, but they’re also X, Y, and Z page builders that might do.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Exactly. We’re happy to sort of mention them as options and sort of maybe give us a brief intro about each of them. But we’re not going to focus on external plugins just because it’s better to avoid that in this context.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s see. I think I’ll try to call dibs right now on teaching a workshop in 2021 once it comes out cause that looks absolutely fantastic.
Hugh Lashbrooke: It does.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Well here, I like to end this show with a question I ask all of my guests. So do you have any trade secrets for us?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Trade secrets, trade secrets? Well, I guess my trade, my business at the moment is contributing to WordPress. That’s really where I’m heavily focused. And I would say, cause I hear from a lot of people, they want to get involved in contributing in some way. And obviously, in my context, it’s mostly on the community team. But I speak to people interested in other teams too. And a lot of the fears people have are that they won’t be good enough, which is, you know, sad that people think that. But I totally understand it because it’s a common feeling. But I would say if you want to get involved in contributing to WordPress or any open-source platform, because there’s way more out there than just WordPress, the skills you have right now are good enough for that. If you do something with that project, you can contribute those skills back to the project. And that’s a good thing to remember and a good thing to find that.
Joe Casabona: That’s great. I love that cause I, well, I was supposed to give a WordCamp US talk a couple of years ago and my flight got delayed. But it was all about that. Right? How to contribute to WordPress essentially by giving a talk. Right. Because I think a lot of people think that contributing to WordPress means writing code for WordPress core. But there’s a lot of other things.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Not at all. There are tons of things. You can present websites on Learn.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Absolutely. And I will link that in the show notes. Also, link to the contribute page, right? Cause there’s like a whole page on how you can contribute over on [make.wordpress.org].
awesome. Well, Hugh, this has been great. Thanks so much for coming on and talking about the Learn WordPress platform. If people want to learn more, where can they find you?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Well, in terms of the platform it’s on [learn.wordpress.org] and the community team is sort of spearheading the movement, the kind of work on it, but it’s we’re working with the training and TV and met a bunch of other teams. But if you had to, [make.wordpress.org/community], that’s where the community team central places. And also there are community channels in the WordPress stack. So if you want to get updates about the project that’s on the platform, rather, that’s the best place to go.
From my side, if you want to find, if You want to connect with me in any way, my website is [huhg.blog], which has a very simple URL. and I’m on Twitter, @hlashbrooke. And you can always reach out to me on the WordPress slack group as well. I’m always, always online on there and happy to chat.
Joe Casabona: That’s fantastic. CUDA blog. Can I, you don’t have to answer this if you’re not allowed to, but there’s this, is that a perk of working at automatic?
Hugh Lashbrooke: Yeah, it is. I don’t know if I can answer. But, yes.
Joe Casabona: If we can, I think we can cut this part out. But I was wondering, cause I sound like, I’m, you know, like Jay Rip got, I think Matt gifted [jjj.blog] to Jay Rip and stuff like that. So, super cool. I had [joec.blog] for a while, which I thought was great. But I let that go. So I guess if anybody wants to [joec.blog], it’s available out there.
Hugh, thanks so much for joining me today. I had a lot of fun with this conversation. I love talking about, basically, everything we talked about today, so I appreciate your time.
Hugh Lashbrooke: Cool. And thank you very much. I’m a good fan. I always enjoy chatting about this stuff and thanks so much for being interested.
Joe Casabona: Thanks so much to Hugh for joining us today and for giving us a little bit of insight into the Learn WordPress platform. If you want to contribute to this great project In a year where perhaps you did not get to speak at as many WordCamps as you would’ve liked, this is a great opportunity. Go to [learn.wordpress.org]. I will link all of that in the show notes which you will be able to find over at [wpreview.io]. That’s [wpreview.io]. That will take you to the podcast page. It’ll also take you to the overall project site. that’s just a redirect to a [wpyearinreview.com] that goes directly to the podcast page. So if you want to learn more about all of that, again, head over to [wpreview.io].
Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to our sponsors for this project, Nexcess, and GoDaddy Pro. Their support really put the…gave me the ability to take this project to the next level. So their continued support of community-based projects amazes me. I really appreciate everything that they do for the community and for this project. So again, a big shout out to them and to all of the people who pledged at any level for WP or WordPress Year in Review.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, get out there and build something.